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"Batman v Superman" v "Captain America: Civil War"

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by DarkSpade93, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. DarkSpade93

    DarkSpade93 Level 11

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    With both of these movies now on DVD, I figured I would share my thoughts on them. One of them has been universally panned and the other universally acclaimed, but with this post I aim to show why this should not be the case.

    Spoilers Below!

    Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Ultimate Edition)
    Pros

    • Visuals/Cinematography
      • [​IMG]
      • Above is just one example of the many scenes that are stunningly shot in this movie. From elegant establishing shots to the eye-popping action sequences, this movie is gorgeous.
    • Musical Score
      • The themes for Batman, Superman, Lex, and Wonder Woman are all memorable, with Wonder Woman’s being a real standout.
    • Opening Metropolis Scene
      • This scene dramatically kicks off the Batman v Superman conflict (the “v” in the title doesn’t just refer to the physical fight. Their animosity starts here and culminates in the fight)
      • For Bruce it is chaotic, confusing, and terrifying. And he witnesses a young girl lose her parents (paralleling his own past) due to Superman’s actions.
      • Also, the sound of the Kryptonian World Engine frequently haunts Bruce throughout this movie, which is a nice touch.
    • Cynical Bruce Wayne/Batman
      • Alfred says Bruce has changed. He’s become more aggressive and pessimistic. It’s never explicitly stated why he’s changed, although there are hints such as the loss of his allies (particularly Robin). But I like this new take on Batman; after twenty years of doing this he’s seen the absolute worst of society and it’s taken a toll on him.
      • “How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?”
        • I view this as a nod to Harvey Dent/Two-Face and it gives justification for Batman’s distrust of Superman. ‘He may be our ally now, but he could become a monster in the future’
    • Superman: The Symbol of Hope is Hopeless
      • No matter what he does, he feels misunderstood. He knows he can’t save everyone. There will always be casualties and consequences but he does the best he can. But people condemn him for who he “chooses” to save. As with Batman, it’s a different take on this character and I like it.
    • Warehouse Fight
      • Straight out of the Arkham games:
        • Comes up through the floor
        • Disables their weapons
        • Performs inverted takedowns
        • Batclaw takedown
        • Batarangs knock foes unconscious
        • Environmental takedowns
        • Counters multiple foes at the same time
        • Ground takedown
        • Wall takedown
    • Martha
      • It’s in this scene that Batman no longer views Superman as an alien threat but rather as a human. He has a mother, he has people who care about him, and he has people he cares about.
      • Bruce was a helpless kid when his mother died. And now he’s turned Clark into that helpless kid who is about to lose their mother. Bruce realizes he has become Joe Chill and this moment snaps him out of his rage.
      • Could it have been executed better? Yes (who refers to their mother by their first name?), but it’s still a great concept.
    Cons
    • Lex
      • He’s over the top and clearly mentally unstable. It’s also never explained why he knows what nobody else knows. He just knows!
      • Although I do like how manipulative he is. Almost every event in this movie is his doing and is part of an intricate plan.
    • Bat Brand
      • I get that Batman has become more aggressive but…this? How does a writer even come up with this idea? WHO BRANDS PEOPLE!?!
    • The "Knightmare" Sequence
      • Very out of place and confusing (especially for the general audience member). It hints at a potential event in a future movie in a very clumsy manner.
      • It is an impressive single cut though.
    • Justice League Tease
      • This was just a lazy way of hyping up the Justice League movie. The Justice League is revealed through an email attachment!?!
    • Wonder Woman
      • She’s just a deus ex machina.
      • I’m pretty sure Anderson Cooper has the same amount if not more dialogue as she does.
    • The Kidnappings
      • The conflict between Batman and Superman was developing naturally. Superman doesn’t like Batman because he’s a symbol of fear. Batman doesn’t like Superman because he has unchecked power. The kidnappings of Lois and Martha to give extra motivation for Superman was unnecessary.
    • The Batman v Superman Fight
      • Similar to the point above, the reason they fight is dumb. It should have been a battle of ideologies, not because ‘he has my mom!’
      • Superman should’ve tried harder to explain the situation to Batman.
    • Doomsday
      • So, by mixing Zod’s corpse with Lex’s blood you can make an enormous energy-blasting creature? Okay.
      • Why couldn’t Superman just throw the kryptonite spear into Doomsday?
    Overall
    • Definitely a flawed movie but it had unique takes on iconic characters and a story that (mostly) made sense and had compelling themes. It starts with a jaded Batman and a solitary Superman and ends with them realizing that they compliment each other whereas Civil War ends with the conflict unresolved which bothered me. This movie was complex (in a good way) but could have been more fun and probably should have been entry #4 or 5 in the DCEU, not #2.
    • Rating: 7/10
    Captain America: Civil War
    Pros

    • The Third Act
      • The fight between Iron Man, Cap, and the Winter Soldier was brutal. Stark watches archival footage of his parents’ murder and then realizes their murderer is standing right next to him. And Cap knew about this! So Stark goes ballistic and these people who were once friends are now trying to kill each other. Very emotional and very intense.
    • It Builds on the Previous 12 Movies
      • Stark feels discomfort over the actions of the previous 12 movies. As does Vision and Secretary Ross as well. This world and these characters have a history and we’re aware of their viewpoints and relationships. So the divide that occurs amongst the team feels natural (in some ways, more on that below) and the 6 vs. 6 fight that occurs feels earned. The events of this movie couldn’t have happened earlier on. This is entry #13 and its positioning makes sense.
      • Even the Winter Soldier killing Stark’s parents was subtly referenced in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. The studio has planned things in advanced and the payoff has been incredible.
    • Zemo
      • He’s the only MCU villain to actually succeed in his plans. He wanted to destroy the Avengers from the inside and he did. He’s what Lex should have been.
    • Black Panther
      • I knew nothing about Black Panther going into this movie but I’m now excited for his solo outing. He’s regal, mysterious, and has a great arc in this movie.
      • The way he runs, jumps, and fights feels animalistic and you believe he can hold his own against these superpowered beings.
    • Spider-Man
      • He actually looks like a kid this time.
      • He steals every scene he’s in and he adds to this movie what Batman v Superman was missing: a sense of fun.
    • The Airport Fight

      • Giant-Man. ‘Nuff said.
      • But seriously, this is a spectacular sequence. It’s a fight involving twelve characters and yet each character has a moment to shine. It’s insane, intricate, and funny. This is the best scene in this movie and it’s one of the best superhero fights ever put on film.
    Cons
    • Visuals/Cinematography
      • Really nothing memorable here.
    • Musical Score
      • Also nothing memorable. This is a common problem with the MCU movies.
    • The Accords
      • Whenever the Avengers save the day, there are unfortunately human casualties and large-scale destruction. So the government wants to control the Avengers and deploy them on their terms. But had the Avengers not sprung into action even more people would have died and there would have been even more destruction! The whole premise of this movie doesn’t make sense. No one should be in favour of the Accords.
    • No Ramifications
      • The Avengers are divided into two sides and remain that way at the end of the movie. But it’s obvious that they’re going to reunite once Infinity War arrives since that movie is being promoted as ‘everyone vs. Thanos’. So the fact that they’ve split isn’t really significant since it’s just temporary.
      • Also, Rhodes becomes paralyzed as a result of the airport fight. But at the end of the movie he’s seen walking again thanks to some Stark tech. So what was the point?
    • Spider-Man
      • While he is great whenever he’s on screen, he really serves no purpose story-wise.
      • Also, Stark feels regret upon learning that a kid died due to his actions in Sokovia. So he proceeds to recruit another kid (Spider-Man) and put him in harms-way? Did he learn nothing? And how did he know that Peter Parker was Spider-Man?
    Overall
    • Although I found the plot to be weak, the characters, action, and humour were all excellent. It organically builds on the foundation of the previous movies, features a phenomenal fight sequence, introduces some compelling new characters, and (most importantly) is fun instead of dour.
    • Rating: 7.5/10
     

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